Problems with the future of Cooking

First- The higher level foods do require more mats, but being in a clan that has full time farmers is not extreme, the only thing I see is the waiting game for crops to seed, then grow. Being the 3rd highest cook in game, and actually cook not gather water 100% of the time like some do, I think the higher lvl foods are good because once crops come in with a abundance the lower lvl foods will only be made by those who can't make the higher stuff.

Second- Water. When a cook can gain 9 million xp a day gathering water the xp does not need to be increased.

I have been told over and over that Beta actually plays the game the way it was developed to be played, but it is not frowned upon to be played different ways. The members who work together and we have several do anything from low lvl to high level.

I think the key to a successful cook is to have farmer(s) to back them, luckily I have 2 main farmers and many who work it part time.

Also there is word that higher level foods will be changed, but not sure what changes will happen.

Thanks for the feedback! Sweet Thing which 60+ recipes do you see yourself cooking regularly besides Oatmeal and Lake Trout Nagiri?

I also still thing xp values need to be looked at for gather water, or have the consideration for a level 80 gather water spot in region 4, to catch it up to the other level 80 skill spots region 4 brings. While gathering water all day may net you 9mill, wood or mining all day would be over 20 mill.

Fish Taco's - waiting on olives, and cilantro

Tortilla Soup- waiting on cilantro

Stuffed peppers- waiting on chives

Fried Beans- waiting on beans (used to make refried for burritos and nachos)

Salsa- waiting on cilantro

Oatmeal- waiting on farmer to be able to plant (should be in next day or so)

Lake Trout Nagiri- (Already Making)

Burrito- Once refried beans are made, and salsa

Cheese Penos- Only once anything needing cheese is stocked and not needed(will use cheese on more important stuff first)

Flat Bread, Empinada,

Gordita- will prob not be made as our hunters bring in too much without foods

Chips- will prob not be made as it has no use

Oat Bread- will prob not be made as +capacity is not a issue here, we work around getting someone able to move without foods

Nachos - will be made

If someone has to mats coming in (with farmers there is no issue) then making these foods are not a problem. Yes it is slow process at first but once things roll in the wait game is no issue, I work on stuff i can make while waiting on the stuff i can use.. I communicate with the farmers to let them know at all times what I need, what I am low on.. And Beta now has a 2nd cook because I could not keep up with the demand or production coming in by myself. I also have several who jump in to do stuff like mill wheat, or make something low lvl if i or the other cook is working on something else..

So like I said previously, the key to a cook is to have a(n) farmer(s) without them, yes it is going to be hard, but as a high level cook I have to disagree with the changed only cause I can see the production being the same with higher foods as it was with lower, your getting more xp for higher stuff, why would it not take more materials to make?

Good response. I agree all these things can be made. But I feel that higher level recipes should give more benefit if they are going to take 2-4 preparation stages. Most of these recipes require cooking parts then cooking them all together. With the time/mats required you could of made piles of lower level food (way more) and get way more benefit out of them than the smaller amount of high level food you made. I think the exception to this would be oatmeal and Lake Trout Nagiri.

Eric, you have echoed my thought exactly. Cooking has 2 issues, particularly poor exp gain and higher tier recipes, which are too complex for the marginal benefit that they give.

Issue 1: Poor exp gain (This is not cooking only specific though)

Exp wise, cooking is among the poorest exp gain after Aura and Speed, with most skills depending on limited availability of materials. I would be inclined to say that the same probably applies for all secondary skills such as crafting and smithing too. Primary skills such as Mining, Woodcutting, Hunting and Fishing on the other hand, only requires their right hand gear and they are good to go, literally forever.

Secondly, the exp system is currently designed such that the exp/sec is equal for levels. For example, coal mining at lvl 60 gives 2,859 exp every 90 seconds, translating to 31.8 exp/sec. Similarly, gathering water at lvl 60 gives 1,747 exp every 55 seconds, translating to 31.8 exp/sec. While this may seem equal, they are not. With food provision at 10 seconds, a miner will always outperform the cook. So, what matters more at competitive gameplay is not only the exp/sec, but the exp gain per action.

This is a valid balance concern unless it is intentionally done so that top players for exp will always be the primary resource gatherers. This is a larger balancing issue overall, in which primary skill specialists will always outdo everyone else exp wise, quite clearly.

Issue 2: Complex higher tiers recipes

While I appreciate the thoughts and realism put into crafting the recipes, there are not much incentive to move up the tiers in terms of food production. An example would be say, construction food. At tier 1, we have the carrot stews, easily made from carrots, water, fuel and beast scraps, giving us -3s for 20 min. At tier 3, we have the burrito, which requires tortilla, cooked tiny beast chunk, refried beans, salsa, cheese and chives, giving us -3s for 30 min. Tortilla, cooked tiny beast chunk, refried beans, salsa, and cheese are secondary food produce, which requires another set of recipe. So, for effectiveness and mass production, it makes no sense for us to produce the tier 3 recipes at the current state.

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While I respect what ST is saying above, I would like to raise a point (obviously, the water collecting exp gain refers to what I did). I would never be able to compete with any primary resource gatherers at similar levels IF they put in similar hours as I did. I am somewhat still up there in the ranks somewhat because I have been more active, but that's about it. For the same hour of gameplay, secondary skill specialists will not be able compete on fair footing with the primary skill specialists.

Then again, if the intention from the start is for the secondary skill specialists to play the support role, and therefore assigned to lousier exp gain as a whole, then it would be nice to get an official clarification on if this is indeed the case, though I really do hope that secondary skill specialists can support and still get equal rate of exp gain.

Eric you stated Mining and Woodcutting get more xp, but refer to the Highscores...

#1 woodcutter is only lvl 87

#1 Miner is lvl 116

#1 fisher is lvl 106

#1 cook is lvl 112

No offense to any of these players but I do not see cooking being in the categories of aura and speed at all..

Also let it be noted that I don't cook to be top in cooking, I cook to benefit the members of the guild and would do so in any guild I am in. I can also add that the top miner is where she is because 97- 100 % of the time she is on food, and that is the honest truth. If I decided to just gather water cooking when i first started I could be side by side with the #1 cook in game, but i did not choose this route because the variety in cooking is challenging, and never boring..

also let me say, the higher tier foods are suppose to be changed as far as -time or length or both unsure as to how, but i do know they are changing.

I want to feel like cooking higher level foods is more effective than cooking level 1-20 foods. I want to feel like the levels I have worked to gain can be put to use and make me more helpful as a cook in my clan. The way food is now the best use I can be is to cook mass amounts of level 0-20 food. I would love to cook all those complex and step required level 20+ foods but the truth is it makes me less useful and the xp gains are slow.

Yes there are high level cooks, but the time they have needed to get there has been way over and above that has been needed by fisher/woodcutters/miners (who can get the best xp values in the game without any mats). I am suggesting through water xp changes (including a level 80 gather water skill) and giving more of a reason to cook higher level foods we can be more of a help in our clan and get a good xp/time return on that work.

And I am glad to hear they are re looking at the benefit of the higher level foods :)

Things that I do see needs to be changed since it is used in high level stuff is a new place to grind wheat (lvl kitchen) or make dough at a higher lvl.

(not cooking but) Stone needs a higher lvl place to be mined- since it is used in all lvl buildings

Beast Scraps need to have more uses or the qty of them increased to lower the counts being brought in from hunting.

I agree sweet thing! I think all these actions need higher level versions. I love the "Mine more..." versions of the mining lines. I think these would be well placed into other skills

Going to be blunt here, but I'm tired of seeing the same thing happen all over, sweet thing you have no understanding of the concept of doing efficient things, yet you constantly come in on balance issues anyway. You're doing something because you like doing it does not mean it's a good and viable option, I've seen it on so many issues now. People are constantly quitting over these balance issues and you think nothing is wrong because no matter how bad they are you'll just do them anyway. That's not balance, not in the slightest.

If the 20 min food is more than two times easier to mass produce than the same food with a 30 min buff, it's badly balanced. That's all there is to it. You can do higher recipes, but it'd be a stupid thing to do. Balane is not just giving options, it's giving viable options, which this system does not at all. For every food the area 1 version is objectively superior and easier to mass produce.

Attempt 27: Success, -1 Tortilla, -1 Cooked Tiny Beast Chunk, -1 Cilantro, -1 Barley, -1 Onion, -1 Water, +1 Tortilla Soup(s), +3089 Cooking xp.

Compared to lower lvl woodcutting food, I see no reason to not make higher level foods giving the exp it gives on success, let alone the fail success being over 6k..

Also Boxsalesman, you only know me from this game.. so you saying I constantly come in on balance issues is untrue. I will voice my opionion on cooking as it is my main skill and I have no issues leveling it... I think it levels too fast if anything to be honest. At the rates of things now, new content will constantly have to be added to keep up with people wanting more content to keep going upwards.

And to post and show.... being on timer food for 20 minutes -

XP Gains

Why would a cook not make high level foods? If i can make 531k in 20 minutes, I can make over 1 Million xp in less than a hour. Water is not meant to level on over and over, you are suppose to move up the chart to make foods. So I still say No on this change, more important changes can be made in the game to balance than this.

XP Gains

In 45 minutes and still cooking the same food for another 15 minutes at least..

I am showing the xp gains to give a better prospective and this is just a lvl 63 food.. it goes higher when you get into more foods.